Ocean Reeve Inhouse Publishing

Ocean has been a great resource for our team as we take our books on their independently published paths.

Ocean regularly quotes, “..Is it trade standard?” Those in the book publishing industry are very aware of the importance of this question.

Catch up with some wonderful words of wisdom from Ocean about Independent Publishing and how you can be a part of that world.

For those who prefer to read the transcript below.

DYAN:   Today, I have Ocean Reeve with me from In-House Publishing. Thank you for joining me today, Ocean.

OCEAN:                  Thanks Dyan. Good to be here.

DYAN:   This interview series is called Bringing Our Books to You. You’re a little bit different from the other people I’ve interviewed, because you bring lots of books to lots of people. Other people that I’ve been interviewing have been particularly related to the art side or publishing their own books, whereas you’re an independent publishing house. So I guess your creative process is going to be a little bit different from the other people that I’ve spoken to, because you’re not necessarily going to be sitting there with a paintbrush in your hand, are you Ocean?

OCEAN:                  Not quite.

DYAN:   There still is an art in what you do. So let me hear about it.

OCEAN:                  Ok. Well, I guess the main thing is there’s a more defined difference in publishing now than there used to be. Most authors are sick of the traditional publishing process to be the be all and end all. Self-publishing became very popular in the new millennium, except now it’s developed even further into Assisted Indie Publishing. I guess that kind of sits in the middle of both traditional and self, where authors still go through the traditional publishing process, hold on to the rights, hold on to the control of their work, it can live as long as they want it to, but they now have a trade standard product in the market. The other aspect to the indie publishing model that we’re introducing is the marketing and distribution of these books. The last 3 to 4 months, developing that connection between the libraries, distributors and the bookshops, has been very profitable and very positive. It’s taken a long time for a lot of the industry players to accept self/indie publishing and that it’s going to have longevity. But it has really started to open doors now. It gives the authors a lot of confidence and it gives me a lot of belief in what we’re doing.

DYAN:   As you said, Indie Publishing has almost been to take the best of both worlds, what the traditional publishing houses had been doing for a long time, because a lot of their processes are very necessary to follow to make sure that you meet all your regulatory requirements and also to minimise the amount of time with mistakes. Your self-publishing industry as you said, they’ve made new technology, wanted it to be, out in the marketplace because they’ve demanded that they can do their own eBooks or they can publish their own book or format it, all these tools have started becoming available to the self-publishing authors. But as you say, sometimes that can get a little lost if people don’t follow some of the basic rules for book publishing, that they end up with a document or a book that’s not really that cool, which is not what you want, because you want people to have a great experience with publishing. I guess people will eventually work out what works and what doesn’t work. They say that the art of managing those two worlds into a place that becomes seamless for that indie writer is truly a process in itself. Now we will talk about . . . you’re a bit of a man of the world really in how you fell into this profession. I don’t think there’s a job you haven’t had until you came here. May be I shouldn’t say that. I’m sure there’s a few jobs that you haven’t had.

OCEAN:                  Well, believe it or not, my first ever job was planting fuchsias and I actually really liked it. I could put my hand in the dirt and being one with nature, it was probably a real awakening for me. But I’ve always been involved in entertainment in some fashion. So whether it be film or television, and nightclub or entertainment promotions, and then into publishing. It’s just panned out that way. I haven’t looked for it. I just think that the creative part of me has always been quite alive. Yes, it’s just progressed over the last 20 years like it has . . . and I’m so pleased to be in an industry that is constantly developing, always looking at new ways to bring a promotion to life. Because after all, the definition of publishing isn’t just about books. It’s about making information public. Whatever media we choose to do that with, it’s a really a noble process when you’re doing it with a team of creatives because they are the most bizarre, wackado people you can ever work with. The energy that’s revolving around that kind of group and those sort of people, just gives you so much satisfaction . . . I get goose bumps just talking about it. It really is. It’s alive, alive everyday. I’m never going to steer away from it.

DYAN:   It was interesting because I made a note there. As you said, you started growing plants and now you’re growing authors.

OCEAN:                  Oh, that’s good.

DYAN:   Yeah. I do take notice. As you say, you’ve always been around cultivating the business that you’re in. As you say, you were always a fuchsia grower. You do. You help authors understand what their limitations are. That can be quite a hard conversation at times and I know you’ve had some hard conversations with some people along the way. They don’t want to listen to this is not going to work or if you go down this track, it’s going to take you a lot more time or money or energy to do this. But you’ve just got to let those people go, because no matter what you say and no matter what you do, they’re going to continue down that path. They may come, they may circle back and that’s I guess just business in general. But as you said, in the entertainment industry, you do get a lot of live wires. So you’re used to the glitz and the glamour that comes with those personalities and know how to ensure that the relationships that are important to keep do keep coming back. So we met . . . when was it? Was it 12 months ago that we first started talking? I can’t remember.

OCEAN:                  Something you brought up before. When I was in New Zealand, I was part of a company, a co-director, of a non-profit organisation, Pied Piper Productions Trust. The whole idea of that, was to produce local film and television projects and we would get funding from government bodies to help bring them to life. The mantra of the whole trust was to bring in the youth of our province to get involved in film and television in some way, whether it was behind the camera or in front of the camera, they got a taste of what it was like. Then they could make their own choice on where we’re going to go with this. Some got into editing and production. Some came over here to Australia and did some work in front of the camera. I guess with independent publishing, and what you said before about authors and the choices they make, absolutely. They are free to make the decisions they want to make in the publishing process. My job is to guide them down the right path and it’s their call whether they want to listen to that advice or not. But what became very frightening to me, about 7 or 8 years ago, I had an author who had signed up to our publishing house and he had this amazing story about running a music festival and how a gang infiltrated it and took all the money, setting him up to take the fall. He passed this manuscript to the publisher, traditional publisher. They looked at it and went OK, this is great, we’ll take it on, they gave him a contract, he signed it, and he was excited. Then they went to the editorial and cover design process, showed him what they’d done to it. I was in the room when he looked at it and he was absolutely distraught; they’d taken so much of his life out of the story, so much of the design of the cover was not what he wanted. The company director at the time said ‘Well, in a way, you signed away your rights, you don’t really have much of a say.’ That hit me pretty hard. That’s why I feel independent publishing, even though there’s a financial, emotional and physical investment that the author makes, they have the final say. They get to make that decision. I don’t think anyone else has the right to tell someone how their baby should look and feel and go forward. My job is to ensure they are protected, cultivated and that their creative ability is nurtured, like the fuchsia.

DYAN:   Yeah, like the fuchsia. As you say, like with the fuchsia, you’ve got to know what sort of mulch and fertiliser you need because there is legal requirements and legislative requirements that you absolutely must follow. Otherwise, you’ll get yourself in big trouble. Copyright. You mentioned that in your book, that copyright is one of those areas. I think it’s because of the internet. I’ve been having the same conversation actually with my children. People think because it’s on the internet, it’s free to use. And it’s not. Again, that’s where you come in, because you can help these people with ‘Ok, that’s great, however that’s that other person’s information, have you got permission to do that’. They’ll be like ‘Oh what, I needed permission for that?’ As you say, you’re not taking away what the feeling and the story is. You’re just providing that well, look, if you don’t want to get sued, we might just need to get this legal stuff signed off.

OCEAN:                  Certainly. I was with a client recently, he’s doing a…it’s a Christian book, it’s a journal and it’s about the . . . I can’t remember the actual terminology he uses. But he’s grabbed some passages out of the bible. It’s a New Edition bible. He initially thought, ’Oh, it’s a bible and I can use it’ and you can’t. That is published by a company over in the U.S. and you need to get their permission. The great thing about this circumstance is because it’s a Christian organisation, they reviewed what the book was about and signed it away without any financial connection. But nevertheless, you can never ever think that you’re allowed to use a sentence, a paragraph or a chapter of someone else’s work without going through the proper channels. There is such a thing called fair use. But it’s very, very well defined and we don’t want to step outside what the parameters are. Even if you have the slightest bit of doubt, speak to the experts, because it’s not worth the risk.

DYAN:   That’s right. I think it even comes into that . . . when you were saying to me what’s your favourite and least favourite aspects of your job. I can see part of your favourite one was the people that you get to meet because you got the goose pimples there.

OCEAN:                  Oh yeah. The people in this industry are what makes it amazing. At the end of the day, when I’ve done my job and I’ve helped others do theirs, it’s about leaving a legacy. In a hundred years, Dyan, you and I are gone, but our books are going to be here. Now because of the way eBooks, audio books work, generations and generations and generations are never going to lose this stuff. Millions of people that help tell these stories, whether fiction or nonfiction, whatever, the connection is amazing. The relationship that you form is something I hold incredibly valuable. So definitely the people would be the most enjoyable part of the process. The least enjoyable part of the process, I don’t like dealing with the money. I really don’t. Sign a quote, pass it on to somebody else and I stick with the creative stuff or the process of the publishing. When it comes to helping the authors work out their financial forecasts, retail prices and discounts, I’m all for that because I want the authors to have tangible goals and realistic targets. That’s also very, very enjoyable. There’s not a lot I don’t enjoy about publishing.

DYAN:   I could almost say that it’s the people sometimes too.

OCEAN:                  Well, there have been some authors that certainly pushed their boundaries with me. I’m a patient person. I’m an Aries. I can handle it.

DYAN:   Aries. I’m a Scorpion. So watch my tail.

OCEAN:                  Oh, that explains it so much. The people are the lifeblood of this industry. The writers and the readers who buy these books. If it weren’t for the people, there wouldn’t be stories.

DYAN:   Yeah, that’s right. It’s interesting. That was part of the conversation I’ve had with one of the other ladies I spoke with. We have in western society stepped away a lot from the storytelling that we grew up with traditionally. You know, you’d go over to friends’ places and people would tell us stories, the uncle or the neighbour or whoever, and you’d hear these stories. Nowadays like we’re so . . . like there are still places that it does happen. But it’s not like it was traditionally with the stories that were told, and as you say, it’s being lost. So it’s great that this movement is happening again that people are wanting to tell their stories and to share them so that they’re not lost and they can be read in future generations. As you say, it’s not always necessarily appreciated straightaway. I think that’s the other side.   Maybe this is just moving into the challenges professionally and personally. When I look at the books that are “overnight sensations”, in fact, the manuscript was written usually 10 years beforehand. So there’s usually a 10-year period before you become awesome. And having the strength to keep turning up day in and day out for 10 years is sometimes a little daunting, and that can be a little bit of a balance in itself for the authors, and then also for yourself professionally that these authors aren’t going to . . . as you say, there’s that JK Rowling syndrome or the 50 Shades of Grey syndrome that people think I’m going to do this book and it’s going to become a movie. Being able to reel people in and say just hang on a tic, this is not about being there. Those people certainly didn’t see themselves as being there. That just happened to be the path they went down for a number of different reasons.

OCEAN:                  JK Rowling, the one that really resonated with me on that . . . I did have an author come up to me. I say this to every single author ‘What is your goal with your book?’ . . . and I had one person tell me that they wanted to be the next JK Rowling. I went, ok, so you want to self-publish, you want to struggle, which is what she did. The first Harry Potter was self-published and she sold it through her website. You want to struggle and then have a hope that maybe you will get picked up. I don’t think having that kind of goal is realistic. The most common one I hear now is I want to make a difference. I do a lot of non-fiction at the moment. The stories and the manuscripts that are given to me are about changing someone’s perspective hopefully, informing them and educating them on a certain aspect of that author’s life that they can resonate and connect with and hopefully it’s going to make a change or put them on a different direction to lead to a more positive outcome in their life. From a financial point of view, everybody has the goal to make a book into a bestseller and I’m no different. I want my book to do well. But fundamentally, it comes down to what reach you have, how far you’re willing to take it, how long you’re prepared to do this for. This stuff does not happen overnight. You’re right. The manuscript might be written 10 years ago and the constant rejection letters from the traditional publishers, can knock an author down constantly to the point of them giving up. And then a spark just sets something off and they are the next J.K. Rowling and there you go . . . so it’s a roll of the dice when you go into publishing. I think the biggest goal every author needs to take on is that they are publishing. They are bringing the book to life. They have successfully brought together a trade-standard publication for the marketplace in their region, in their province, in their country and internationally. That is not something to be boohooed because out of everybody I have spoken to over the last 15 years, less than 10% of them have actually gone forward and published. So it’s still a very small group of people that have gone through and done this.

DYAN:   As you said, it is hard work.

OCEAN:                  Oh it is.

DYAN:   It’s commitment to content. Something that is written down.

OCEAN:                  And being able to call it valuable and quality content, not regurgitated, not plagiarised, not empty . . . it’s actually got to hold some true value, not just to yourself as a writer, but to those close to you and to people you don’t even know, these things take a lot of time.

DYAN:   Yeah. I actually made a note. There was someone that I was speaking to the other week. They said you should commit to one hour a day to your content no matter what. Because if you say I’m just going to set Saturday aside for it, it just never happens. So you’ve just got to do one hour a day. Sometimes that one hour might be you just sitting there looking at your manuscript and not adding another word to it. But other days, you may write 3,000 words. So you just need to have that routine, that you have that time set down.

OCEAN:                  That becomes habitual when you go into marketing as well. Because we’re living in a generation where the internet is our saviour. An hour a day. When I was writing film scripts back in New Zealand, I had a young family at that time, my family knew that after 7pm, I’d be sitting down for an hour and I’d be working on my script. I got into a habit that now after Home and Away, whatever I am watching, at half past seven, I’d be spending an hour on something creative of my own. I just can’t stop that now. It’s become part of who I am.

Now, when you’re writing, you’re working on your manuscript to the point of publishing and then you’ve gone into the processes and you might be working with the editor or designer or whatever . . . the same thing applies. You’ve got to make sure you send it out, do that research, write an email or whatever it is. Again when you go to social media marketing, it’s building your reader review group. You spend an hour a day. What you take out of that, it’s so valuable.

DYAN:   Yeah. That probably makes the difference between the people who get there, as you say, the 10% you’re talking about. These things you say, the more widely you read and people you talk to, all these sorts of things keep coming to the forefront of your mind that the difference between 99° and 100° for water is the difference between boiling and not boiling. So it’s only 1° different, but it makes all the difference. So as you said, those people who will commit to that will be in that 10% who get to the next journey. Now who then is successful out of that, it comes and goes. I’m always amazed by James Patterson. The man can’t seem to get out all themanuscripts in his head. Apparently, he’s just got like post-it notes all over the place with all these different books and then he started co-writing because he can’t keep up with the level of content that’s coming into his head. But I also think that the guy is like, 70 odd, . . . so he’s got all this experience that he just keeps distilling and just keeps on seeing these variations. I think people, you’ve got to give yourself time to get to certain points. It’s not going to happen overnight. You’ve got to give yourself the best opportunity to create habits. As you say, you know 7.30 is going to come around and my brain is going to start thinking creatively. Things will just happen out of that, out of that process.

OCEAN:                  Absolutely.

DYAN:   That’s almost a crazy fact about you Ocean unless you can give me something else crazier.

OCEAN:                  [LAUGHTER] I can give you an insight into some of the mantras that I live by. I wake up smiling and I go to bed singing. I literally do that. I get up at quarter to 4 every morning. On the way to work, I will make sure I think about something that’s going to make me laugh. It’s not hard to do now because it has become a habit. I was discussing this with my family the other day and they said how the hell can you smile at 4 O’clock in the morning. I said, if I ever struggle with it, I put on the Vengaboys and both of them, { my daughter and my wife } crack up laughing, the Vengaboys, see you guys are laughing just thinking about it. . . [LAUGHTER] when I go home singing, when I jump into the car it is 5 O’clock, I work a 12- hour day. It’s what I want to do and not because I have to . . . I’m driving home, I have a 20-minute drive along the highway and I’m thinking about the one aspect of the day that’s gives me the right to sing at the top of my lungs. A few weeks ago, it was One Direction. I didn’t even realise it was One Direction I was singing to. But there is something every day in this industry that this gives me the right to sing at the top of my lungs. It’s the authors, it’s always the authors. Because if you think about James Patterson and what you said before about the creative energy that most of these guys have… I am surrounded by this. I’m getting emails, phone calls, I’ve got people in my office that that’s all they are about. I get to selfishly revel in that creativity. Authors are the most leftfield, crazy people I’ve ever come across in my life and I love them. I just can’t live without them.

DYAN:   Now, we’re going to do the top 3 wrap up. You can tell me whether or not I got this wrong or right. The points that resonated most with me, but then you can tell me whether or not you think this is different or wrong, or your perspective. One thing that resonated was the movement into the Indie Publishing and how it has created a new platform for people to ensure that their stories become a legacy for the generations to follow. I also liked the insight into yourself. I don’t know that you thought about this before. How growing fuchsias was actually going to be your lifelong. . .

OCEAN:                  I’d never, until today and then, this is so cool, it is. I think going back to what you said before, independent publishing, the community, its building, absolutely, that’s imperative. My personal connection from where my first job was…? That’s unbelievable, that’s my reason for going home singing today, Dyan, thank you.

DYAN:   That’s ok. So you’re still growing. You’re growing authors, which is great. I’m just getting images of that. You digging your hands in the dirt, and then now, like you’re still getting your hands dirty and helping people do things that they… you’re helping them blossom. That makes me get goose bumps.

OCEAN:                  That’s awesome. That’s really good.

DYAN:   The last point, which is really the hardest part of the journey I think is the commitment to content, is setting up that habit to do an hour a day is probably one of the biggest hurdles that I think most people have. Because they think that it won’t matter if they skip one day. But it does. It’s got to be 100%. 99% is hard. 100% is easy. So no matter what…

OCEAN:                  Absolutely, take it past the content though and it’s also into the process and it’s also into marketing. You have to get into the habit. If you’re going to be serious about becoming an author, then you have to be serious about being a part of it.

DYAN:   Yeah. Even that can be finding experts because you need to know where your strengths are. Knowing that as well can help you find other people who can support you. That’s why we met because there were areas I couldn’t cover off in what we wanted to do. I just kept on asking questions till I knocked on your door.

OCEAN:                  We go back to what the first point was, is that independent publishing is a community. If you look at the self-published author, and it is kind of insinuating that they are doing it on their own. In a way, they are. Independent publishing is not quite like that. You have a tremendous level of support. Like we were talking before the interview about your editing, designers, it was a group of people that have the same vision in mind that helps bring these interests to light. So you know, it . . . It is a community,

DYAN:   Thank you Ocean.

OCEAN:                  Thank you.